[22:52:17] yo, sorry the servers for ircx went down. the certs expired and i got so fucking mad at our sysadmin guy i wiped them ;x [22:52:37] you in the know of whats happening? [22:52:55] everyone kinda split off one by one [22:52:58] so i assume people got bored [22:53:01] and cancelled the hub :P [22:53:10] yeah i just .. i prefer ircx [22:53:12] i'm busy with work anyway [22:53:18] i just deleted it i couldn't handle any more irc [22:53:38] anyways let the past be the past with freenode, you're welcome to rejoin if you let that stuff go [22:53:53] the staff that is [22:54:06] these conspiring assholes did nothing for years [22:54:39] and then they have it all wrong [22:58:09] i have no interest in being a freenode staffer [22:58:24] me neither [22:58:32] figured you may want to come back in some fashion tho [22:58:35] my only interest is having an IRC network the alpine community can actually depend on. [22:58:35] you made the place [22:59:52] thats certainly a goal, from me speaking to andrew he doesnt and never wanted to fuck this up; all he tried to do since christel stepped down was get his inhouse sysadmin access to everything; a business should have access to its assets [23:00:08] now theres this mega bullshit going on and nobody cares. [23:00:32] so, i think that freenode should not be a "business" [23:01:16] thusly, i cannot in good consience lend legitimacy to any effort that continues freenode as a "business" [23:01:25] needs to be for him to pump money in to FOSS [23:01:32] and whatever else he had in mind as far as helping [23:01:50] i do not follow [23:02:22] its only a business to legally have a board and directors and officers; thats needed for events like freenode live and some other stuff planned behind the scenes [23:02:23] the chat network [23:02:30] that has nothing to do with what andrew wants [23:02:34] he was going to leave it as is [23:02:45] ah. [23:02:47] for something called FOSSter [23:02:52] he just gave (from freenode) [23:02:54] 100k to a project [23:02:57] i cant say which but [23:02:59] he did [23:03:25] so the secrecy is maybe ... probably causing people to wig out and think a corp is taking over [23:03:28] but it isnt like that [23:04:05] oh lord, this is the pleroma foundation all over again [23:04:13] beats me [23:04:19] i just want those cancerous opers out of there [23:04:28] tomaw straight up said to andrew that he fucking hates me [23:04:30] bitch [23:04:36] ive never EVER spoken to or met tomaw [23:04:39] and he hates me [23:04:54] I want to see all of them deopered. [23:05:06] useless assholes. [23:05:11] well, your boy controls the freenode domain [23:05:18] i'm sure there is a path to achieving that. [23:05:24] yeah but why go that path [23:05:31] then if we split the network over [23:05:35] we 1) have no services db [23:05:45] if he splits the network over [23:05:45] i feel my involvement in won't really be terribly helpful or convincing [23:05:49] no services db [23:05:58] all the users still connected to these servers [23:06:08] and the opers will just /wallops and global notice their new network [23:07:35] i mean, i have important work to do. dealing with an IRC network is not really something i want to be doing this decade outside of fucking around for fun with IRCX [23:07:51] i have code running on two planets [23:07:53] but [23:07:57] you can ban your enemies. [23:08:01] im turning tomaw [23:08:01] i don't have enemies [23:08:07] and jess in to a bot. [23:08:22] i know you don't, we're older now [23:08:25] more mature [23:08:31] i was just trying to make you laugh [23:08:52] dont tell me that sweet revenge of a kline /fuckyou - just ONE to those people who dissed on charybdis [23:08:59] wouldn't make you feel good [23:09:01] i don't really care [23:09:14] i think about it, i wouldn't do it though [23:09:18] have to walk the higher path [23:09:29] im still banned from snoonet lol [23:10:58] your employer owns snoonet [23:11:45] i actually dont work for ltm [23:11:50] still [23:12:06] i work for his brother though [23:12:09] alex lee [23:12:48] i help where i can but im too busy at the office to do much else [23:12:53] like have a girlfriend, mine left me ;/ [23:13:19] and actually i think its just prawnsalad that owns snoonet now [23:13:21] i could be wrong tho [23:15:44] anyway, i think i've contributed as much as i can to the topic of IRC network governance with the charybdis and atheme software packages as well as the atheme operator workflow (of which freenode still uses to this day for training) [23:16:07] having an o:line means additional work for me. it is a distraction. [23:16:37] ill make sure you get +oO in #freenode [23:16:40] so you can kick people [23:16:44] why the hell do i want that [23:16:45] my gift to you pal [23:16:56] stop trying to bribe me [23:16:59] this is just pathetic [23:17:05] might even give you flags +f [23:17:08] so your friends cna join in [23:17:35] i'd have to read up on the atheme flags [23:17:39] know anybody that could help me? [23:18:00] perfectly coded... well written... completed project... [23:18:13] why not talk to ilbelkyr, who i handed atheme maintainership to [23:18:15] damn what was that nerd stuff you were talking about, decentralized auth [23:18:23] hhMMMmM [23:18:24] i assume she would be a domain expert [23:18:26] this gives me ides [23:18:37] ideas* [23:18:48] we could network hop with the same auth [23:18:54] across different platforms ;o [23:19:03] yes, that was kind of the idea with ophion [23:19:09] I KNOW [23:19:22] -*- nirvana pats freenode on the hood [23:19:42] unfortunately, i have pre-existing full-time commitment as alpine's security team chair [23:19:55] which is another reason i do not wish to have an o:line [23:19:55] they let you be chair? [23:20:01] yes [23:20:08] i'm not sure why that surprises you [23:20:19] i didnt say it surprised me [23:20:28] i was actually about to type a compliment [23:20:31] 'good because you're smart.' [23:20:50] we're working with manjaro [23:20:51] (well did) [23:21:00] Shells is on KDE page, Manjaro [23:21:08] Nitrux coming, Open SuSE announcement (in 4 hours) [23:21:16] I'd love to work with alpine linux [23:21:20] anyway, if you want my support, produce actual documentation outlining a governance structure [23:21:25] we're trying to close the digital divide [23:21:36] your product is bullshit :) [23:21:36] and push forth linux desktop computing [23:21:50] hey man but its my job and what i believe in [23:21:54] it is literally VPS [23:22:04] with remote desktop access enabled [23:22:18] with Spice and QEMU yeah [23:22:20] seems designed to be a loss leader [23:22:24] for tax writeoffs [23:22:40] eh [23:22:42] well [23:22:46] https://vp.net [23:23:07] vps sells :p [23:23:36] i see [23:23:50] so what i have learned here is that the stability of freenode is in the hands of a VPS company [23:23:54] this hasn't launched yet, and actually should have a coming soon splash [23:23:57] this is not confidence inspiring [23:24:58] anyway, i do not know why you bother to offer bribes of o:lines, flags +oOf whatever [23:25:55] i don't bring any value to your attempt to seize control of the network [23:25:55] im not [23:26:01] honestly i just kind of missed talking to you [23:26:09] wanted to see your thoughts on the whole situastion [23:26:16] my thoughts remain unchanged [23:26:23] i want to see a network that is accountable to its community [23:26:50] i will support whatever brings that about [23:26:52] i want to see a network thats proactive and works with its communities [23:26:58] and isn't boring as shit [23:27:10] you can have both [23:27:48] what i care about is three things [23:27:52] 1. stability of the network [23:27:57] 2. freedom of the network [23:28:09] 3. lack of corruption in the operations of the network [23:28:45] anything past that is a value-add [23:29:36] projects entrust freenode for their IRC requirements because they believe freenode is trustworthy. those who have been around longer are more cynical, but you, rasengan, tomaw, everyone, has responsibility to those projects. [23:29:52] and in your dickwaving contest, all of you are throwing them aside. [23:30:25] so, if you want me actively involved, hereis how we are going to do this [23:30:44] we are going to dissolve freenode limited and transfer the freenode assets to either the software freedom conservancy or linux foundation [23:31:29] we will then form a steering committee to collect user feedback regarding the direction of the network [23:31:41] we will then formulate a governance plan based on that feedback [23:32:09] seems like a solid idea [23:32:19] freenode is an IRC network, it is not a mechanism for donating money to FOSS [23:32:31] that is some goddamn epstein shit [23:34:17] you want to prove it's going to be different -- that's how you prove it's going to be different [23:34:26] anything less is a waste of my time [23:36:46] word [23:36:49] you still in WI or what [23:38:28] i'm in WY yes [23:38:33] i am about to move to seattle tho [23:38:42] the alpaca farm is SHUTTING DOWN [23:38:48] hahah [23:38:59] why seattle? work? [23:39:29] yeah something like that [23:39:55] prob found yourself a sub [23:40:20] wow u been browsing my fetlife profile huh [23:40:25] you guys are intense [23:40:33] shit you're on there too? [23:42:37] no comment [23:44:00] anyway, i'm down to actually fix freenode [23:44:05] but to actually fix freenode [23:44:12] the governance needs to look a lot different than it does today [23:44:26] thats basically what andrew said [23:44:31] he also came up with a decentralized governence [23:44:38] which made sense as he explained it [23:44:42] i'm interested, but i need to see some docs [23:44:47] you two might like discussing that higher minded shit [23:44:55] hm let me see if i have one [23:45:00] there was an idea floating around [23:45:08] i think tomaw was like nOOOOoo i WnaNNnNAn be in charge [23:45:13] then took the domainf rom andrew [23:46:13] well if that is what happened, then i am disappointed in tomaw [23:47:12] that is what happened [23:47:30] and then he tried to make oftc and freenode go to solanum when andrew said hey lets chat first [23:47:36] just to see what tomaw was doing [23:47:41] then tomaw went batshit [23:47:53] to be honest, solanum is not a good ircd [23:47:58] made a post on the website the next day [23:48:01] bro i shut that shit down [23:48:05] i have found several technical issues [23:48:08] no way was this all going to solanum [23:48:20] anyways, he pulled access from andrew, made that post on the direction of freenode [23:48:23] making himself head of staff [23:48:26] well, charybdis is dead now [23:48:27] then ignored us [23:48:52] so then andrew lawyered up cuz [23:48:58] that breaks a LOT of laws and stuff [23:49:17] now everybodys accusing him of wanting to seize operations and shit [23:49:21] it was never like that [23:49:36] so he gave domain back, but not fully.... [23:49:49] made the sysadmin a manager of the domain, but that leaves tom in control of it [23:49:55] as an owner [23:50:18] but. the domain's whois [23:50:21] Freenode Limited. [23:50:46] so it doesnt matter in the long run, rasengan will get freenode. he's even offering tomaw a second chance [23:50:57] he was going to change freenode over to everything he wanted it to be [23:51:04] they forced christel out [23:51:18] not andrew and them, but the freenode staff [23:51:26] poor lady [23:51:29] forcing christel out does not seem like a large accomplishment [23:51:36] she was pretty much hands off anyway [23:51:41] yeah [23:51:52] so anyways me and andrew months ago we didnt hear from christel [23:52:00] or anybody so we came and asked tomaw what was going on [23:52:06] he said she was healthy just taking a break [23:52:10] we got back in contact [23:52:28] then christel i guess had a kid or something [23:52:36] okay well anyway i am only interested in burning it all to the ground and implementing real governance [23:52:44] have to focus on that, had to resign [23:52:48] -*- nirvana hands ariadne a lighter [23:52:52] im telling a story here shut the fuck up [23:53:05] oh [23:53:09] anyways then tomaw took the throne [23:53:35] the page revert was a "We didn't agree on any of that. Stop making decisions on your own" [23:53:41] you see everybody's quit letters? [23:53:59] https://web.archive.org/web/20210511190028/https://coevoet.fr/freenode_leave.txt [23:54:26] at the bottom of that one is the others [23:55:05] ah, so this is the libera.chat thing [23:55:17] i guess i mean [23:55:21] i didnt know it existed until last night [23:55:35] so apparently they mde this back in april before anything [23:55:39] so what were they planning x_X [23:57:35] i see [23:57:40] but libera.chat is unlikely to succeed [23:57:46] pfft bro we know [23:57:54] it's 2021 [23:58:10] i dont know who likes those fuckers anyways [23:58:18] like did you ever know those people to be a crew on irc [23:58:24] besides ircops on freenode? [23:58:27] many of the are/were friends of mine [23:58:29] like did they ever do anything [23:58:34] i dont remember them [23:58:49] i do. many of them "grew up" in the atheme community. [00:00:00] - {Day changed to Thursday, May 13, 2021} [00:00:08] word well thats good [00:00:27] their intentions are good, and their reaction is understandable. [00:00:40] yeah i can see it from their point of view [00:00:44] you see it as an attack against freenode, when in reality, they are boycotting both you and tomaw. [00:00:45] but i see both sides of the fence [00:00:55] oh shit [00:00:59] they dont like tomaw either? [00:01:21] i would assume not. [00:01:25] and you as in Freenode Limited right? [00:01:31] he is not there. [00:01:33] I have nothing to do with this freenode stuff i wont even be an oper here [00:01:54] i just know all the behind the curtains stuff [00:02:06] i am willing to provide an advisory role, but have zero interest in operational details or "punishing" enemies [00:02:13] hahahah [00:02:14] i try to be happy [00:02:30] if i could /kill ANYBODY I think. [00:02:34] it'd be idahodude [00:09:10] if i could /kill anybody it would be nobody because i've spent the majority of my life fighting against this crap [00:09:36] you have great honor [00:09:39] you are awesome ariadne :) [00:10:13] no, i'm not [00:13:28] i am just a fucked up person like most people [00:14:09] but for the most part, the only people i have ever /killed were people violating network policy or bots [00:14:25] i cannot think of any exception to that other than birthday kills [00:14:48] i would not want somebody who fantasizes about using /kill as an oper on a network where a /kline can be career-effecting [00:15:15] and, the fact that freenode staff can singlehandedly damage a person's FOSS career with zero accountability, is why i do not trust any of you [00:17:31] ;x [00:17:37] im sorry again for the banhammer [00:17:51] <3 [00:17:56] its k now, karma ban hammered meeeee [00:19:15] i don't trust myself with freenode either [00:19:22] just to be clear [00:26:28] hahahah [00:26:34] one bottle of whiskey [00:26:42] and its godzilla stomping through tokyo bay [00:27:27] its always the same shit though [00:27:36] nobody sticks with the plan [00:27:38] then they get all emo [00:27:42] blah blAh BlAHHHHHHHH [00:36:50] i mean, you do understand i am going to ask libera.chat what their side of this story is, right? [00:37:05] ultimately, i have to recommend to alpine core team what is best for alpine [00:44:18] seek the truth be at peace yo [00:44:47] just saying they have it wrong and when they see what he's doing with the "Freenode Limited" they may still have objections [00:45:19] why cant freenode do something nice until other structures are worked out internally [00:45:23] not one of them opers tho [00:45:38] messaged him to say even hello, hi how are you [00:45:47] strike up a convo ask him his intentions themselves [00:45:48] not 1 [00:46:28] its so political in their minds that it infuriates them [00:46:59] I even said, listen if the opers leave and make their own shit as long as they dont spam it or are total assholes about it, I think thats a good thing. then they have a home, and their peoples can be there with them [00:47:05] i'm sorry, were they expected to lick his boots? [00:47:08] theres no hate for the libera chat [00:47:11] i dont know [00:47:18] at least have a convo with the dude [00:47:38] in their mind, andrew bought and took over the network. that's how it looks to me, too. [00:48:01] took it over how we didnt change the ircds or website or anything [00:49:07] what if that shit started getting FBI letters AGAIN, when he lawyered everybody up etc when that one fucker was attacking the staff [00:49:15] and he cant do anything because they dont even know who he is on IRC [00:49:23] that was a huge thing it made a lot of people quit i guess [00:50:26] hes just one of us that codes shit and wants to decentralize things and make things fair then people judge right off the bat